The subject of unfair trading practices such as forcing sellers to accept ebays dodgy payment system - Paypal have been coming up. Here is part of the transcript of a converstion I have with "idee99" from Texas, US.
idee99: What do you think of a class action suit against ebay for unfair business practices?
Terry: Well, there have been other such actions, and indeed if you look at sites like http://www.paypalsucks.com/ you will see a few. Problem is though, from what ive heard, every man has his price (judges etc) and ebay can afford to pay them
idee99: I just read a lawsuit against ebay for monopoly and forcing the use paypal . How do we get publicity for our strike and the issues behind it so that some prominent firm might take on our lawsuit?
Terry: Well, Ive had a faor amount of traffic through this blog and im happy to publicise the strikes etc. The fact is though (and this is something im fast finding out - ive had over 15,000 emails since i did my listing) is that ebay really couldnt give a shit about any of it and they will just bribe who they need to bribe. The "forced paypal" thing is simply a protection racket and nothing else. Its totally illegal, but they get away with it using some bullshit about it being "safer for buyers" . It then goes on to call buyers its "customers" which is of course rubbish - sellers are! We need a major law firm to take them on.. I just dont think they will.
idee99: The way I see it, sellers get routinely scammed by buyers as well as the other way around. However, from what i read (I am a small seller with 100% feedback and haven't experience the many scamms you mentioned in your ad, but know they truley exist) ebay routinley defalts in favor of the buyer even when the prponderance of the evidence show that items have been received etc. etc. That should be illegal. I think if we could get national /international attention to the strike and the resons behind it, public opiniion would go against ebay and they might have to reconsider as that is their "customer" base.
idee99: You seem to have received much attention for your auction/ad. Has any international media sought your interview?
Terry: You are totally correct about the scam problem. The vast majority of emails i have had have been from scammed sellers. Paypal is simply a scammers tool and nothing else. The problem is that "consumer champions" you know the ones - those TV programmes that expose dodgy traders only ever concentrate on dodgy sellers - they never expose dodgy buyers. People forget that ebays customers (and therefore its consumers) are actually its sellers (its fee payers) and so the sellers are the ones the consumer shows should be championing. Its a change of thinking thats needed in the media. How that will happen, well I dont know, but Im giving it a good shot myself. Ive had contact from the media and I have put the view you put in your last post - a number of times. Ebay will only care about this if people leave (stop listing) en mass - not just a few thousand, but millions. The only way that will happen is media coverage of the REAL issues. I hope this blog will help in that fight , but much more is needed - much much more.
Terry: Yes, Ive had contact from various media over the last week or so - just hope they will publish the story.
....... So howabout it - Anyway Lawyers out there up for taking on Paypal/Ebay?? I will dream on.....
Monday 18 February 2008
Saturday 16 February 2008
Hello - Just a quickie
Hi - Well now over a week since the "Laptop" appeared for sale, and still the messages keep coming. The interesting thing is that one of the most reglular visitors to this blog are eBay themselves (Theyre not very good at hiding their IP address!) So, perhaps youd like to say Hi eBay?
Anyway, heres a few more messages from those people that have said Hi:
This is genius ! - The kind of thing that would reach the papers
- **claire*and*bryan**
You should not loose your account for telling the truth !! (but I'm sure you will "cus" they don't like the truth )tried it my self once ! MH
- madhatter_at_the_tazbar
As a seller who's been hammered by one of these techniques I have to applaud you for speaking out. I tried for months to deal with both PayPal and eBay but both returned nothing but 24 hour delayed form letters that rarely responded to the actual question. I responded again and again for a month or more before giving up. There's simply little that a seller can do when a buyer takes advantage of them. Huge market opportunity for some eBay knockoff to steal the sellers. One day eBay will cross an imaginary line in the sand and it'll happen en masse. I can't wait.
- gascowboy
Hi there. You really seem to have reached tons of people who are taking note of what you've said and I think it can only be a good thing. (So well done you!) You definitely have my permission to publish my message, and this one as well if you need to. Keep spreading the word! Many thanks, Angela.
- amariap
GREAT advert! It appears Ebay WANTS to shed the little sellers. The perfect solution would be to seperate the two factions (PowerSellers/Private Sellers) and SELL the portion (intact) they wish to be rid of. Ebay would make a bundle! Our flea-market selves would stay intact as one marketplace. Hopefully the new buyer would be more respectful of the people that made ebay the monolith it is now. Thanks for plugging for the little guy!
- skeletoninmycloset
G'day, i saw your laptop ad. Your funny!! By the way people were discussing about you (your ad), forums in Australia. Your famous!!! haha
- stlepr
your item listing really put a smile on my face, I to was conned by paypal , an lost money, an now I'm supposed to pay item fees for an item that I lost my money on? this is the final straw.
- anemotion7
Anyway, heres a few more messages from those people that have said Hi:
This is genius ! - The kind of thing that would reach the papers
- **claire*and*bryan**
You should not loose your account for telling the truth !! (but I'm sure you will "cus" they don't like the truth )tried it my self once ! MH
- madhatter_at_the_tazbar
As a seller who's been hammered by one of these techniques I have to applaud you for speaking out. I tried for months to deal with both PayPal and eBay but both returned nothing but 24 hour delayed form letters that rarely responded to the actual question. I responded again and again for a month or more before giving up. There's simply little that a seller can do when a buyer takes advantage of them. Huge market opportunity for some eBay knockoff to steal the sellers. One day eBay will cross an imaginary line in the sand and it'll happen en masse. I can't wait.
- gascowboy
Hi there. You really seem to have reached tons of people who are taking note of what you've said and I think it can only be a good thing. (So well done you!) You definitely have my permission to publish my message, and this one as well if you need to. Keep spreading the word! Many thanks, Angela.
- amariap
GREAT advert! It appears Ebay WANTS to shed the little sellers. The perfect solution would be to seperate the two factions (PowerSellers/Private Sellers) and SELL the portion (intact) they wish to be rid of. Ebay would make a bundle! Our flea-market selves would stay intact as one marketplace. Hopefully the new buyer would be more respectful of the people that made ebay the monolith it is now. Thanks for plugging for the little guy!
- skeletoninmycloset
G'day, i saw your laptop ad. Your funny!! By the way people were discussing about you (your ad), forums in Australia. Your famous!!! haha
- stlepr
your item listing really put a smile on my face, I to was conned by paypal , an lost money, an now I'm supposed to pay item fees for an item that I lost my money on? this is the final straw.
- anemotion7
Friday 15 February 2008
This weekend...
I am afraid I will not get to check this blog much, so comments left may not appear for a while. Please however please do keep sending your emails and comments - we read all of them and will publish them if you wish us to.
Have a nice weekend.
Have a nice weekend.
Jamie gets the silent treatment!
Jamie (Ebay User: jbug81) spoke to eBay today:
"I talked to them today and they said that they are making the site better that gallery pictures are free and the site would be updated then I ask why they are increasing listing cost and allowing feedback changes that would allow blackmailing sellers they hung up on me"
Dont worry Jamie - I think theyve hung up on me as well!
"I talked to them today and they said that they are making the site better that gallery pictures are free and the site would be updated then I ask why they are increasing listing cost and allowing feedback changes that would allow blackmailing sellers they hung up on me"
Dont worry Jamie - I think theyve hung up on me as well!
Thursday 14 February 2008
Mark - A medium size seller
Today, I had a chat with Mark, from Utah, America - Mark is a medium size seller on ebay. Here is an extract of our conversation which Mark has authorised for publication:
Me: What do you think could be done better by ebay? I know I have gripes with Paypal and feedback as you could see from my listing, but what would you chnage if you could?
Mark: "A very big question, with many answers on many levels. But to begin I have to say that the root of the problems with eBay's market place is in the massive culture of corporate mis-management and greed"
Me: Yes, I think youre right, it does seem to be at the heart of ebays ethos. When do you think this started to happen - over what period of time?
Mark: "It was there from the beginning, but in a more "hip" form. It became increasingly entrenched as eBay grew and ther came to be really big corporate dollars to waste and grab for. Management took out huge amounts of money for themselves and there cronies, and that's what eBay is all about for them, a giant cash cow. The old bit about the "eBay community" was largely exploitation and propaganda. Management probably thinks they are very smart for having made eBay a success, but I think it was largely an great accident taking place at the right time and place. Now that EBay has grown so large, it's problems are also now very large. But management isn't smart or skilled enough to actually solve those problems. In other words, I think that eBay's fundamental problem is simple greed and hubris. All the monkeying in the world with feedback, fee schedules, etc. will not solve eBay's problems or those of it's sellers and buyers."
Mark goes on to say that he will indeed continue to use eBay as he relies too much on its services to leave. I would like to thank you Mark for your time and some very interesting points.
Do you agree with Mark? Whilst I agree with Mark, I am lucky in that I do not depend on eBay sales. I do however feel very sorry for people that do - what an awful situation.
So What are the good points of eBay?
I would like to hear all points of view as unlike eBay, I welcome alternate points of view.
Me: What do you think could be done better by ebay? I know I have gripes with Paypal and feedback as you could see from my listing, but what would you chnage if you could?
Mark: "A very big question, with many answers on many levels. But to begin I have to say that the root of the problems with eBay's market place is in the massive culture of corporate mis-management and greed"
Me: Yes, I think youre right, it does seem to be at the heart of ebays ethos. When do you think this started to happen - over what period of time?
Mark: "It was there from the beginning, but in a more "hip" form. It became increasingly entrenched as eBay grew and ther came to be really big corporate dollars to waste and grab for. Management took out huge amounts of money for themselves and there cronies, and that's what eBay is all about for them, a giant cash cow. The old bit about the "eBay community" was largely exploitation and propaganda. Management probably thinks they are very smart for having made eBay a success, but I think it was largely an great accident taking place at the right time and place. Now that EBay has grown so large, it's problems are also now very large. But management isn't smart or skilled enough to actually solve those problems. In other words, I think that eBay's fundamental problem is simple greed and hubris. All the monkeying in the world with feedback, fee schedules, etc. will not solve eBay's problems or those of it's sellers and buyers."
Mark goes on to say that he will indeed continue to use eBay as he relies too much on its services to leave. I would like to thank you Mark for your time and some very interesting points.
Do you agree with Mark? Whilst I agree with Mark, I am lucky in that I do not depend on eBay sales. I do however feel very sorry for people that do - what an awful situation.
So What are the good points of eBay?
I would like to hear all points of view as unlike eBay, I welcome alternate points of view.
And ebays way of addressing the issue..........
Received from eBay today:
Dear class-it
Receipt of this notice indicates that your account is now blocked from bidding or listing on our site. You will still be able to access your account information to determine your final bill payable to eBay for our past services if applicable.
We might require a waiting period for complete closure if you have had any listing or bidding activity in the months leading up to the date of your request. By allowing 90 days; to pass we are helping to ensure that all transactions have been completed or at least, enable both parties to access the information that may be needed for completing the transaction.
Once the 90 day period is over, we will automatically proceed with your account closure request. As part of your request, on completion we will also conceal your current contact information, your bidding and selling history, your Feedback Profile, and your About Me page if you have one.
When we have finished that part of the process, you will receive a final notice from eBay for confirmation. Please note that if you have an unpaid balance on your account, eBay will continue to use your contact information for collections efforts until your balance is fully paid. Final closure will forever conceal all information about your account ? for example, once your FB profile is concealed, it cannot be restored.
If you do not wish to have your account permanently closed, please contact us immediately. We hope that you have enjoyed your time with eBay. Respectfully,
My answer Ebay : (As I know you are looking in on the blog quite often).
I will be billing you for all the wasted hours I have had trying to contact your customer services department, and also the time spent dealing with relisting after a number of my auctions were wrecked by Nigerian Scammers. I will keep your details on file should I need to act to recover such monies you owe me as a result of non payment of my invoice for said wasted hours. I will delete your details once your debt has been paid.
I may one day decide to have an account with eBay again, but that will only happen when it is clear that you care about your customers - and I suspect that hell will indeed freeze over first.
You are a disgrace to the business world. You rip your customers off and you encourage scammers to steal off your customers. I hope that many of your customers will follow me, as I know many are, and leave. Those that remain, will leave when they start getting hit with the inevitable feedback blackmail and Paypal scams.
As for me enjoying using ebay. I did once yes, and Ive met some wonderful people on ebay. Isnt it a shame that such a great company has been ruined by people like you. Lets hope one day that your accounts will be closed and that eBay will once again be a great auction site.
Goodbye.
Dear class-it
Receipt of this notice indicates that your account is now blocked from bidding or listing on our site. You will still be able to access your account information to determine your final bill payable to eBay for our past services if applicable.
We might require a waiting period for complete closure if you have had any listing or bidding activity in the months leading up to the date of your request. By allowing 90 days; to pass we are helping to ensure that all transactions have been completed or at least, enable both parties to access the information that may be needed for completing the transaction.
Once the 90 day period is over, we will automatically proceed with your account closure request. As part of your request, on completion we will also conceal your current contact information, your bidding and selling history, your Feedback Profile, and your About Me page if you have one.
When we have finished that part of the process, you will receive a final notice from eBay for confirmation. Please note that if you have an unpaid balance on your account, eBay will continue to use your contact information for collections efforts until your balance is fully paid. Final closure will forever conceal all information about your account ? for example, once your FB profile is concealed, it cannot be restored.
If you do not wish to have your account permanently closed, please contact us immediately. We hope that you have enjoyed your time with eBay. Respectfully,
My answer Ebay : (As I know you are looking in on the blog quite often).
I will be billing you for all the wasted hours I have had trying to contact your customer services department, and also the time spent dealing with relisting after a number of my auctions were wrecked by Nigerian Scammers. I will keep your details on file should I need to act to recover such monies you owe me as a result of non payment of my invoice for said wasted hours. I will delete your details once your debt has been paid.
I may one day decide to have an account with eBay again, but that will only happen when it is clear that you care about your customers - and I suspect that hell will indeed freeze over first.
You are a disgrace to the business world. You rip your customers off and you encourage scammers to steal off your customers. I hope that many of your customers will follow me, as I know many are, and leave. Those that remain, will leave when they start getting hit with the inevitable feedback blackmail and Paypal scams.
As for me enjoying using ebay. I did once yes, and Ive met some wonderful people on ebay. Isnt it a shame that such a great company has been ruined by people like you. Lets hope one day that your accounts will be closed and that eBay will once again be a great auction site.
Goodbye.
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